Stay N' Alive - Latest Comments in Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

MikeSchinkel — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:17:18 -0000

Jesse: People started using @username organically and then Twitter recognized it and just "paved the cowpaths." @username works where username doesn't because of global vs. local scope as @azurelunatic brings up, and also because it's an otherwise unusual pattern that is easy and reliable to parse for username references. I personally love the way they are used. Besides, some people hated music CD when they were released too. '-)

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

cachedout — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:00:46 -0000

Lousy tag parser. That should read: 'd xmlabs you_message_here'.

-mp

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

cachedout — Mon, 05 May 2008 11:58:38 -0000

Speaking of Twitter, I made a Twitter enabled LED sign that faces east onto 400 South at the State Street intersection.

You can only see it at night, but you can have a msg posted there by 'd xmlabs '.

Have fun with it (and be good ;)

-mp

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Jesse Stay — Mon, 05 May 2008 11:08:59 -0000

Thanks Clint - I was looking for a link to that. John was telling me about that the other night, and I think that's awesome!

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Clint Savage — Mon, 05 May 2008 01:25:59 -0000

If you want twitter syntax completion, and are using irssi, check out twitter-irssi. This project was created by Derek Carter (goozbach) and John M. Anderson (sontek).

Here's the url: http://projects.friocorte.c...

Cheers,

Clint

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Jesse Stay — Sun, 04 May 2008 23:56:31 -0000

John, Twitter is also not an open platform. I don't have a problem with them choosing their own conventions - they need to build a standard off those conventions so we are not just relying on one company to deliver this communications platform. Twitter is not making money yet, so there is no saying they will be around forever - sticking to an open standard will comfort me that their platform will not die, and will continue, even if they do not survive.

I still don't like the @ style messaging though.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Sterling Okura — Sun, 04 May 2008 22:37:55 -0000

Jesse, I know what you mean. Twitter does seem more limited in user features than IRC. But it's differences have made it very popular.

I was an avid IRCer on undernet back in '94 - '95 and met a lot of great people in Utah that are still RL friends. Now in 2008 I'm finally getting back into social networking on the internet.

I'm glad Twitter is not just another IRC platform. I like that it's archived so doesn't have to be realtime, that it has basic threading, and you choose who you listen to. I can't really see myself spending a lot of time on IRC again, but for some weird reason I don't mind using twitter.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

John — Sun, 04 May 2008 07:42:36 -0000

That's not really what you've said, though. You've said that Twitter should be based around existing conventions (not 'standards' - tab-complete usernames is client-specific, for example), and chosen an example which personally suits you.

But why shouldn't a different type of service choose their own conventions? That's what happened with the '@user' convention, which coded support was added for only after people started using it themselves.

Twitter is not IRC, 2.0 or otherwise, and its command syntax fits better than using an odd subset of IRC's would.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Jesse Stay — Sat, 03 May 2008 18:53:02 -0000

John, my main point was that Twitter, while an open API, is not based on open standards. I would like to see them implement an open standard, or use and improve on an existing standard.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Jesse Stay — Sat, 03 May 2008 18:51:31 -0000

azurelunatic those are great points - it would be nice to be able to at least tab-complete those that you follow though. That would be more of Twhirl's responsibility though, but there is no standard of any sort governing that - would love to see Twitter implement an open standard based on their platform.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

John — Sat, 03 May 2008 18:40:45 -0000

Twitter being 'IRC 2.0' came about after Twitter was already in heavy use. As far as I've ever been able to tell, it's not actually intended to be anything like IRC.

From that standpoint, switching usernames with trivial commands makes no sense, and '/msg username message' is, if anything, considerably worse than simply 'd username message'.

Twitter's command structure is simple and focussed. That's all it needs to do. Expecting it to be a clone of IRC simply because some people are using like like they used to use IRC is just foolish. I would be surprised if the majority of Twitter's userbase has ever used IRC, and if Twitter had, for some reason, chosen to use IRC-like commands it would be just as much a learning experience for them as the current set.

This is somewhat like complaining that a random text editor doesn't support EMACS commands, because you're used to using EMACS. The world does not pick conventions simply to suit your personal needs.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

azurelunatic — Sat, 03 May 2008 16:17:12 -0000

As a fan of both Twitter and IRC, I think the @username syntax works around a scalability problem that IRC doesn't have unless the channel is very, very crowded. It's easy to ping someone in IRC by their name, without other argument. However, the pool of people who may ping you, even by accident, is limited to the people who are in channel with you.

In Twitter, where your potential pool of pingers is the whole site, you could very easily get spammed up and miss replies you really should have seen, if someone's plain username were enough to ping them, especially for a username that's a common word. I do think it wise to make attempting to get someone's attention a deliberate action.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

Jesse Stay — Sat, 03 May 2008 11:27:29 -0000

keldwud, thanks for your comments. Feel free to e-mail me if you see vulnerabilities. I only speak from my own experience with Twitter and IRC.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

keldwud — Sat, 03 May 2008 10:12:27 -0000

Oh, and I agree with you that the syntax does leave something to be desired.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

keldwud — Sat, 03 May 2008 08:37:16 -0000

Oh, and the nature of your OP has left you wide open and vulnerable to counter-attack with lots of snark and
turning certain statements made back upon themselves thus either slighty damaging your credibility or ego, or both
I have, of course, chosen *not* to take advantage of this. However, if there is somebody following your blog that does not like you, they may jump on the opportunity you left open with this post. See @vaspersthegrate for more info about blogosphere warfare. ;)

If you would like to know more about the vulnerabilities that I noticed, feel free to contact me and I would be happy to let you know in private so as not to call them out in public.

Re: Why I Hate the Twitter Syntax

keldwud — Sat, 03 May 2008 08:16:37 -0000

First answer - @

I remember reading about this elsewhere and I believe the answer that somebody else came up with was that the @reply
symbol came into common usage on the Gawker networks with the commenting system. (I could be wrong)
The non-standard practice may have originated elsewhere but I saw several mentions from longtime gawker commenters
that after a short incubation period of using the @reply visual function (as this is a visual function
created only by the human brain and not translated by software by any means), the community started to develop
grease monkey scripts to ease the use and readability of the commenting system and thus including the @reply format
as code that could be parsed by the script. I could be making wild speculations here, but it may give you
some insight and a lead into the information that you were looking for.

Second answer - IRC vs txt.

I am making another speculation here based less on fact and more on just what I know of certain services. I think
that your second query revolves around terms such as SMS and '140 character limit' and Service Providers and
not needing to install any software on the client side mobile device. I believe (speculation again) that the
developers of this particular social app may have asked themselves questions about how to integrate mobile devices
into the loop of communication without installing any client side software. What would be the most universal?
I think that asking these questions may lead us into the information that helps clarify your confusion as to why
-- as to why twitter had come to evolve as it had -- Instead of IRC evolving in its place.

(sorry for the disjointed post, I can never see what I am typing once my characters reach your "recent
visitors window on your sight, and the text never autowraps while I am commenting)