21 comments

• 

  anon

  1 年 ago

  Exactly. In the usual fashion, the hypocritical, knee-jerk reaction from the common sites on the Internet (Digg, Reddit and the like) will be as strong as usual and next to none of them will think it through.
  
  Ars did, to a small extent, but most other's will not.
  
  Good, succinct post. Random unrelated thing, I got my mission call to the Philippines about 2 weeks ago.
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  Congrats on your mission call anon! I served in Thailand - SE Asia FTW!
  The Church wouldn't be pursuing this if they were afraid of secrecy. It is
  simply a copyright issue, and WikiLeaks is breaking the law and stealing
  someone else's property.
  reply
• 

  LivSimpl

  1 年 ago

  Great perspective piece, and a nice tie-in to social media. Thanks for posting it!
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  LivSimpl, glad you liked it! Someone should submit it to Slashdot as
  another viewpoint (although I doubt they'll post it - they have been pretty
  anti-mormon lately).
  reply
• 

  Andrew Jorgensen

  1 年 ago

  Just to clarify a bit, WikiLeaks has a link on their site to another site hosting the handbook. I'm not a lawyer but it seems like there should be nothing illegal about this. They also have a couple of excerpts. Again there may be nothing illegal about that. Sadly "fair use" has become a gray area but I think most of us feel like fair use ought to be legal. Excerpts may be used legally and particular protection is given when the except is used in a critical context.
  
  Not nice, but not illegal either. At least it doesn't seem so to me.
  
  The site actually hosting the handbook, on the other hand, is definitely in violation. One of the two sites that had hosted the book has already taken it down.
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  Andrew, WikiLeaks is still hosting the document - do a search for "handbook
  of instructions" on wikileaks and you'll see the linked document - there is
  one hosted right on Wikileaks servers, along with excerpts from the
  document. Wikileaks is contributing to the copyright infringement, and they
  know it.
  reply
• 

  Andrew Jorgensen

  1 年 ago

  Ah, I didn't notice that the alternative link was on their own server, either that or it wasn't when I looked this morning. Shame on them.
  
  By the way, the handbook has a section on the use of the Logotype. The image at the top of your post violates the trademark policies. ;-)
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  Funny thing is I couldn't find an approved logo anywhere in their Press
  section - am I not supposed to be using the Logo at all?
  reply
• 

  Pete Dunn

  1 年 ago

  To my other point. Your use of the logo on an article in defense of their position would never come under the scrutiny of their legal department. At least that's my guess.
  
  I'm not trying to be inflammatory, btw. I'm just trying to see the entire picture. At the very least, you have to admit that the situation raises interesting questions.
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  That's because the logo, in its general sense was intended to be for Public consumption. The General Handbook was not - it was written for leaders, and intended to be used by leaders as a guide. Now that it is in public hands it is being misconstrued as scripture and doctrine rather than just counsel for Leaders. The church has an obligation to request it be taken down in this case.
  reply
• 

  Anon

  1 年 ago

  Your church is simply a way of extracting money from people at their lowest, wake up and smell the evolution!
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  Anon, supported by what facts? Our Church is one of the largest worldwide
  donors in the event of disaster and need. They also have one of the largest
  welfare programs in the world. With their worldwide presence and strong
  understanding of foreign languages they have a unique opportunity to get
  money places it normally wouldn't be accepted. Every penny, even the
  "widows mite" is accounted for, and audited carefully, and tracked with
  great care. I don't get how you can come to my blog, offend my religion,
  and say my Church "extracts money from people at their lowest" without any
  supporting facts or knowledge. Your knee-jerk reaction is the same response
  the likes of WikiLeaks and others are giving to this whole situation.
  reply
• 

  Pete Dunn

  1 年 ago

  Did you get permission to use the logo? Just wondering ;)
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  I will gladly remove it if they ask me to - I wish I could find a legal
  version on their site though.
  reply
• 

  Pete Dunn

  1 年 ago

  I was just giving you a hard time. :)
  
  I think you're right. Technically this is an infringement of copyright but it is not just a legal issue. The LDS Church is wishy-washy, at best, about copyright enforcement. There's copyrighted material all over the net being looked-over.
  
  In this case, the manual is very widely distributed. The post about it on wikileak seems to err on the side of informational. The Church is not impacted financially. And the Church, unless it is embarrassed about the content, should view its publication as innocuous and harmless from an image point of view.
  
  If they are embarrassed by it, they should say so and change their policies.
  
  So the question then becomes, what really are they trying to protect themselves from?
  reply
• 

  jared

  1 年 ago

  I'll tell you what they are trying to protect themselves from. They are trying to protect the leaders who use the handbook from a major headache. As Jesse states, the handbook is a "guide." While most leaders follow its counsel very closely, they do have the authority to make decisions separately and take into account individual circumstances. One reason the handbook is not distributed to the general membership, is to allow the leaders to maintain their decision-making authority without coming under attack every time they don't precisely follow the handbook.
  
  Another reason is that there are many situations that members should meet with their leaders for counsel. I am sure that many would be tempted to try to resolve or rationalize decisions by simply reading the guidelines in the handbook when they should be seeking counsel from their leaders.
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  All Excellent points Jared - in a clergy run by the members, a guide like
  this is necessary, but only beneficial to those it was written for. It
  wasn't written for the general membership, nor is it intended to be doctrine
  for them - it is intended to be simply a guide for Leaders, and the
  discussion going on here is the exact reason they don't want it
  disseminated. When it gets into the public hands it gets taken as doctrine
  and scripture when it wasn't intended to be so in the first place. It says
  so straight in the first paragraph of the manual that Leaders are to take
  the counsel within prayerfully - that means in the end it is up to the
  judgement of the leaders, using the book only as a guide. The Guide is not
  doctrine, nor was it intended to be so and Wikileaks is making it appear to
  be as scripture, intended for the public comsumption.
  reply
• 

  Andrew Jorgensen

  1 年 ago

  It's curious that you would take an "if they ask me to" attitude toward trademark infringement in the same breath as "Unlike Wikileaks, I respect others’ copyright."
  
  In reference to use of the logo there's a discussion on tech.lds.org including an official response from the Church. In particular:
  http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?t=384&...
  
  In short, if you want to use the logo you need to ask permission first. Not being able to find a legal version on the site might have clued you in that they don't want you to use it.
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  Andrew, you're right - I've removed the logo, per their requirements. I was
  unaware of their policy until now.
  
  Jesse
  reply
• 

  Kenjebz

  1 年 ago

  Hi nice post Mr. Jesse. Anyway, I hope it is okay to you, I copied part of your blog and posted it in my blogsite and put a link back to your site to read the entire story. Http://jbsolis.blogspot.com
  
  Thanks for this great post! You are right!
  reply
• 

  jessestay

  1 年 ago

  Kenjebz, I enjoy your blog! Wow - Mormon Philipinos in Saudi Arabia, that's
  quite a combination! I'd love to continue hearing more of your stories
  while you're over there.
  reply